{"id":44096,"date":"2022-07-15T11:13:43","date_gmt":"2022-07-15T15:13:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/developer83.wordpress-developer.us\/culturecheesemag\/?p=44096"},"modified":"2022-09-26T13:47:46","modified_gmt":"2022-09-26T17:47:46","slug":"voicings-mary-quicke","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/developer83.wordpress-developer.us\/culturecheesemag\/voicings-mary-quicke\/","title":{"rendered":"Voicings: Mary Quicke"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
Photo by Matt Austin<\/h5>\n\n\n\n

Here in the States, we speak of third-, fourth-, sometimes even fifth-generation farms. In Devon, England, Mary Quicke runs a 14th generation clothbound cheddar operation<\/a>, and it would not be a stretch to say that her fate was set by Henry VIII falling in love with Anne Boleyn in 1527. When the Catholic Church refused to grant Henry a divorce from his first wife, he divorced England from the Church, kicking off the English Reformation and triggering the redistribution of England\u2019s monastery lands. One of Mary\u2019s ancestors was the lucky recipient of some of that land, and the rest is dairy history.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the land, Mary now crafts innovative wheels of an oak-smoked clothbound goat cheese, a Devonshire riff on Red Leicester, an Alpencheddar, and many vintages of her traditional cheddar; she\u2019s also developed a cheese education program\u2014called the Academy of Cheese<\/a>\u2014inspired by the American Cheese Society\u2019s Certified Cheese Professional certification. She is a force, but her impressive resume doesn\u2019t keep her from putting people completely at ease. When we spoke this spring, she was casually snacking on hot cross buns she\u2019d made for Easter, getting emotional about Brexit, making plans to go surfing in Cornwall, and positively swooning over soil.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This interview has been edited for length.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

culture: <\/strong>I always like to start by asking people how they got into the world of cheese, but on a 14th-generation family farm, that question sort of takes on new meaning! <\/em><\/strong>MARY QUICKE: Well, I guess it\u2019s what Warren Buffet calls lucky sperm, doesn\u2019t he?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

[Laughs] Yes, that must be it. So, can you tell me how the Quickes got their start on their farm all those years ago in the sixteenth century?
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: Well, the start came from Henry VIII deciding he wanted to change his marriage plans…he fell out with the Pope, and the way that he got that resolved was to move away from the Catholic church and become a Protestant church, and the way that he sold that to his people, who otherwise might be thinking they might be going to hell, was to give out all the monastery land to the Lords. Then an ancestor of mine 14 generations ago married an heiress from that time. Her father had got some land and a Quicke from the middle of Devon married this lady and got this bundle of land.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And there would\u2019ve been cheese made on the farm, but after about the first World War, we had stopped making cheese. So, in the sixties, you had to apply for a license to make cheese. [My parents] applied for a license and it was six, seven years or later that the license came through. At that point, my father was doing agricultural politics, so it was my mother who, as well as raising six kids, said, \u201cOkay, sure. I\u2019ve had the training to be an art student, and I\u2019ve been told that is the training to do anything.\u201d So, she built the cheese dairy and ran it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And where are you in that lineup of six kids?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: I\u2019m the first daughter, second child. I think that\u2019s the kind of bossy position.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Was it ever a question for you that you were going to go into cheese?
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: Well I\u2019ve got three brothers, so I kind of assumed that one of them would come back to the farm. So, I went off to London and did a degree in English literature and did some radio and sold some news photographs for a living, and married. But I just wanted to come back to the farm. One evening, my husband had gone to bed and my father spoke really movingly about this wonderful mechanism of our farm, the cows eat the crops and the grass, we milk the cows, then make that into cheese and butter, and the whey goes to feed the pigs. And then the manure from everyone goes back to grow the crops and the grass. And I kind of loved that sense of this beautiful perpetual motion machine in this beautiful place. So I said, \u201cDad, could I come back to the farm?\u201d Thinking, I\u2019m sure he expects one of the boys to, and he said, \u201cYeah, that would be wonderful, but you have to go and work on another farm, and go to college.\u201d And so, I went to work on a cheese farm in Cheshire and went to agricultural college.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Were any of your brothers ever interested?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: Well, how come it\u2019s gone through 14 generations on this bit of land, is that thing of primogeniture, where the oldest child, usually a boy, gets the land. So [my eldest brother] trained as a doctor, but he now runs the woodlands. About half of the land area here is woodlands, it was kind of rewilded in the 1880s, if you like \u201crewilded.\u201d So, the woods are a really beautiful part of the farm. We\u2019re looking at being carbon neutral and it really helps that we\u2019ve got those woodlands. Not yet, by 2030, is what our target is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What is the typical workday like for you? I heard that you surf!
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: I have to say, what I find about surfing is that, you need courage, strength, and stamina to surf. And as I age, I notice that these are fading and I\u2019m becoming a beginner again. I\u2019ve gone back to a beginner\u2019s board again. But I\u2019ve got no pride. Do you know what I mean? I just love being out in the ocean, you know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Definitely. Have you been doing it since you were in college? Did you start young?
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: My dad took up surfing when nobody surfed, or nobody in this country surfed. So, we surfed when I was 12, I think, and we surfed on these enormous, like, ten-foot-six boards with no leash. So, if you fell off your board, you just had to kind of catch it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When you\u2019re not surfing, what is your typical day like working on the farm?
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: Well I used to milk cows and drive tractors and make cheese. But now I might be tasting cheese. We have an in-house grading system, we taste all the cheeses at three months old and 12 months old and make assessments. I spend a lot of my time talking actually, conversations with people about, is the milk right? Have we got the breeding right? And just now I was having a look at the woodlands with my brother. It\u2019s a real privilege for me to walk with him as he\u2019s kind of thinking out loud what his plans are. When the cows are inside, we bed them on woodchip, which keeps the animals dry but also, when you then use that dirty woodchip and put it back on the land, it really increases the soil organic matter and allows the soil microbes to access the phosphorus. I get excited about the soil. We\u2019re just learning so much cool stuff about how soil works.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And, I mean, then there\u2019s emails, as few of those as I can manage. And there\u2019s a really cool project that I\u2019ve created with some other colleagues in the cheese industry, very much inspired by the CCP, called Academy of Cheese. Its mummy is CCP, and its daddy is WSET (Wine and Spirit Education Trust), the Master of Wine program. So, we\u2019re [making it] accessible to consumers as well as professionals and having four levels of certification. And a model of using training partners and having it online, which is amazing because over COVID we\u2019ve now had about 3,000 people studying or having studied our level one and level two. We\u2019re in the middle of writing level three. Over 80 different countries!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Crazy!<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: Yeah. I was very much inspired by coming and judging at ACS and learning about the CCP. One of the things we\u2019re doing with Academy of Cheese in the level three on maturation and affinage, we thought we\u2019d run a little competition where ten of our cheeses from an individual vat went out to eight different people. And they\u2019re maturing them in different ways. And we\u2019re going to be coming in 11 months later, seeing what that\u2019s like. It started off because we swapped cheeses over with Jamie Montgomery, Montgomery\u2019s Cheddar, and those cheeses became completely different. The Quicke\u2019s at Montgomery\u2019s tasted different to a Montgomery\u2019s and a Quicke\u2019s. So, we got the sense that there\u2019s something really cool going on with that whole microflora that\u2019s happening on the rind.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Can you talk me through the components that set your clothbound cheddar apart from say, another clothbound cheddar in the UK?
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: That\u2019s a really interesting question because certainly milk from every farm tastes different. Of the cheddar makers, we are the ones who are using most grazing, our cows are outside, the spring calving cows are spending all of their milking time on pasture, the autumn calving cows, they come in for the winter, five, six weeks, to avoid the worst of the weather. So, we\u2019ve got more of those grass-fed flavors. But also, because the fats are shorter chain, once you get cows grazing on grass, you get a sort of lusciousness of flavor, there\u2019s a lovely melt-in-your-mouth, softer feel. All of the traditional cheddar makers, we all use these wonderful heritage starters, but there\u2019s a library of about 400, and we tend to have our own ones that we use from that library, and they give quite distinctive flavors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Jamie Montgomery has trained his customers that it\u2019s fine if it\u2019s got mold in it [laughs]. And we have not managed to do that! So, we tend to be much more careful. There\u2019s lots of steps you can take to reduce the amount of internal mold, the blueing, the bruising, if you like. So, our cheese will tend to be quite low on bruising and that\u2019s because we spend three days in the press and we double cloth, and all of that slightly changes the character of our cheese.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s so exciting to see all the makers who are using very similar methods, because then when you taste each one, you\u2019re picking up on very subtle differences from the milk.
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: Well, and also, you get such a difference in flavor from the heart of the cheese and halfway back and under the rind. It\u2019s really celebrating that, that tells the story of the cheese. It\u2019s like a book.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Or like the trunk of a tree! How the middle of the trunk of a tree is younger.
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: Yeah! And driven by that loss of moisture through the cloths.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You got some press recently for speaking out about how Brexit was affecting farmers in the UK. How have your exports been affected by all that?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: Certainly exports to Europe, we were doing them ourselves. We\u2019d talk to some people and they\u2019d give us an order and we would just put it on a lorry and off it went, where now it feels like we can\u2019t do that. We need to work with other people, bigger companies who\u2019ve got access to all the paperwork. I mean Brexit is just an enormous bit of self-harm, in my view, that Britain has done. I found myself being very kind of, really, really sad about that, \u2018cause to me we\u2019re just part of Europe. I found it completely heartbreaking. I cried about it! No, literally, when I heard that Beethoven Ninth Symphony, the Ode to Joy, which is the anthem of the European community, it still brings tears to my eyes to think of that. And I know that not everything out of Europe is… nothing\u2019s perfect, but just that idealism and aspiration and countries working together. And I mean, I know this conflict in Ukraine is nothing to do with Europe, but was Russia emboldened by the idea of a divided West? Maybe a disengaged America and a fractious Britain? I don\u2019t know. Who knows. Certainly where I was with Europe was, it was about that idealism and the idea that countries could work different but in harmony.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s like you were forced into exile.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: [laughs] Yeah. Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m curious if there\u2019s anything about the artisan cheese community in the UK that you feel people in the American artisan cheese community don\u2019t quite understand, or that functions differently over there than what you\u2019ve seen here.
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: I had an amazing visit just now from Kerry Kaylegian. She\u2019s an academic from Penn State in the world of both food safety and artisan cheese, she came and stayed with me. So that\u2019s a real privilege, because we don\u2019t have so many of those scientifically knowledgeable, technically capable, and practically engaged people in the UK. And I love that about the American cheese community. And here, we\u2019re quite a close and small community. We have a Specialist Cheesemakers Association, which is a bit like ACS only it\u2019s just for the little guys, which is very technically supportive, very good at having conversations with government and our food standards agency, and we have an amazing Specialist Cheesemakers farm walk, which is a weekend away where we go and visit some cheesemaker and have a little conference and a feast and a hangout, and most people camp.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A little cheese Woodstock!<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: It\u2019s a cheese Woodstock! And it\u2019s really kind of got that feel. Many beverages are imbibed. So, the thing I noticed, going back to Kerry, is that in America that artisan cheesemaking has got a sort of pioneer approach, people who want to be different and separate and not engage with the processes of government. Whereas I think the approach that we\u2019ve taken is that we want to have government really understand us and get behind what we\u2019re doing. You know, the Food Standards Agency, which would be like your FDA, I was a Food Standards Agency board member, because we need the correct regulation that\u2019s gonna work for small businesses and that\u2019s going to understand what artisan food is so that we can have a realm where, for instance, we can make raw-milk cheese. There\u2019s no limit on the age of raw-milk cheese that we can make here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Whereas the artisan cheese community in the US is, in some ways, a reaction against government-sanctioned cheese.
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: And that\u2019s an interesting point, isn\u2019t it? When we started making cheese again in the 1970s, we definitely wanted to make clothbound cheese. And people said to my mom, I don\u2019t know why you\u2019re bothering making that old-fashioned cheese, why don\u2019t you make nice modern block cheese and you can grow much bigger? There was a bit of a time between the seventies and eighties when artisan cheese looked like it was the left-behind cheese. And then along came people like Randolph Hodgson of Neals Yard and Juliet Harbutt with the British Cheese Awards saying, \u201cHey guys, there\u2019s some amazing flavors here. We mustn\u2019t lose these. We mustn\u2019t forget it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think American cheesemaking industrialized far sooner than British cheesemaking. So maybe all of those cheeses that Americans must have made in their farmhouses in the early years of the twentieth century and before, whatever cheeses they would\u2019ve come over from Europe with, those are kind of long forgotten, whereas in this country, maybe things weren\u2019t so long forgotten. When we taste cheese to people in this country, older people would say, \u201cAh! That\u2019s the cheese I remember from when I was a child!\u201d I had one guy say, \u201cI tasted your cheese and it changed the course of my life because I realized cheese could be unique and an expression of a place.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s so lovely!<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: Isn\u2019t it? People can start expressing what they want out of our food system with these things that are made by a person and coming from a place. The thing I\u2019m getting really excited about right now is that we\u2019re working with this extraordinary unknowable complexity of the soil, and we have these heritage starters. And the way that cheese maturation happens, it\u2019s this incredibly complex process and you\u2019ve got this unknowable complexity of the microflora around the cheese. So that\u2019s kind of a reflection of the world we\u2019re in where we\u2019re starting to manage these processes of climate change and we just have to deal with the fact that we\u2019re not the bosses! We\u2019re the stewards of our world and we\u2019re the stewards of our cheese and we\u2019re the stewards of our food. Am I making any sense at all?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, it\u2019s beautiful! You\u2019re giving an inspirational speech!
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: You know, the older I get the less I know, do you know what I mean?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yours is a great job to always be learning.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: And any solution to climate change or environmental issues has got to involve food and has got to involve consumers saying, \u201cI want my food to be this way and not that way. I want my food to carry these values.\u201d And I can\u2019t see how you can make soils work unless you\u2019ve got an animal step in the system. We can\u2019t keep just harvesting organic matter from the soil. I mean, that\u2019s why people say there\u2019s only 60 harvests left. And if you have an animal step in, then have that animal step be something that cycles nutrients through the system.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Speaking of future harvests, do you know who wants to step in and take over the farm when you\u2019re no longer around?
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: My daughter is in the process, and I\u2019m so happy that she\u2019s joined the business. She\u2019s so capable and she\u2019s got that understanding of the scientific processes. I would consider it a real honor and a privilege if she felt that she wanted to join the business and take it forward. I know what I want, but in these multi-generational businesses, it\u2019s really important that people don\u2019t feel obligated. How you spend your life should give you the greatest pleasure and the greatest enjoyment rather than a sense of obligation. Work should touch you and inspire you and be something that fulfills you. That\u2019s been the privilege of my life and I wouldn\u2019t want anyone, particularly my own daughter, to be embarking on a future that didn\u2019t hold those things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You want someone who\u2019s as excited about soil as you are.
<\/em><\/strong>MQ: [laughs] Well, or just… life is precious! This isn\u2019t a dry run! There isn\u2019t a real life \u2018round the corner that we\u2019re about to live, you know? Do what inspires you, \u2018cause this is it! I see that now from this end of the telescope, have the best time ever! Eat the most delicious cheese, enjoy every bit. You can\u2019t enjoy every bit, I didn\u2019t enjoy the Brexit vote, or the day after the Brexit vote.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The downs make the ups that much better.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MQ: Well, and shit happens. I don\u2019t know if you can write that, but stuff happens. And then it\u2019s about how you are about it. Isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Photo by Matt Austin Here in the States, we speak of third-, fourth-, sometimes even fifth-generation farms. In Devon, England, Mary Quicke runs a 14th generation clothbound cheddar operation, and it would not be a stretch to say that her fate was set by Henry VIII falling in love with Anne Boleyn in 1527. When […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":114,"featured_media":44100,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"wprm-recipe-roundup-name":"","wprm-recipe-roundup-description":"","cybocfi_hide_featured_image":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[14],"tags":[33682,33745,1116,2762,1689,655,19527,4626,10891,2171,26199],"coauthors":[21812],"class_list":["post-44096","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-voicings","tag-academy-of-cheese","tag-cheesemaker-profile","tag-clothbound-cheddar","tag-england","tag-english-rosewater","tag-mary-quicke","tag-profile","tag-q-a","tag-quickes-cheese","tag-quickes","tag-quickes-english-clothbound-cheddar"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nVoicings: Mary Quicke - culture: the word on cheese<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/developer83.wordpress-developer.us\/culturecheesemag\/voicings-mary-quicke\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Voicings: Mary Quicke\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Photo by Matt Austin Here in the States, we speak of third-, fourth-, sometimes even fifth-generation farms. 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